"weave" with 23" considering a change to 40* kewlmetal

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Looking for expert advice and wisdom from the forum.

Last summer I went to a 23" front wheel on my 2013 FLTRX and installed a Pickard 23" Bagger Tree along with a Lowering kit and have been experiencing "undamped weave/oscillation, fishtailing, rocking, etc..." and wondered if others have the same/similar behavior.

I posted a video here:

http://youtu.be/5KJAt09PeJ0

Note the undamped 'rocking/weave' beginning ~ 8 seconds. Behavior is activated with a quick/short input (and release) to the bar (left or right) then allowing the bike to naturally settle. It seems excessive to me and doesn't feel as stable as I would like it.

Speed in the video ~ 60 MPH

Note 1: I do not experience any vibration (at any speed).
Note 2: If I apply continuous pressure (left or right) as utilized during an inter- or intra-lane change the bike does not exhibit this behavior. Thus, only a quick/short transient input to the bars seems to excite this behavior (weave/oscillation, fishtail, rocking, etc)...

I brought the bike back to a local shop here in NorCal several times to adjust/check neck pressure (recommended by Jevon at Pickard who was very helpful!), wheel balance, alignment, etc with no appreciable change in behavior.

I ride two up quite often and travel long distances (typically 8 hour rides with twisties along with highway riding) and find with the additional mass/weight the bike will not exhibit this behavior as much. (i.e. it is dramatically reduced). However, when I ride solo this behavior increases dramatically (as shown in the video). I weigh about 160lbs and stand around 5'8" tall and after trying to sort this out for months I am convinced that this particular setup is not optimum for my personal set of variables... Others that I have talked to with the same set up are typically taller and/or stockier and have no issues. I would think this would be a factor that could impact 'riding' geometry enough and would contribute to differences in ride among individuals.(?)

After talking to a number of folks (including custom builders in the area) and reading the forum I wondering if going with the KewlMetal 40* pro street kit will address my issues? This was recommended by a very reputable custom builder in NorCal. It seems that stretching the wheelbase and rake would stabilize the ride at highway speeds.(?) What about navigating twisties as well as two up riding over long distances?

I appreciate any help or insight from the experts!

JettSound
 
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DirtyDan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,535
That's pretty scarey. I'm sure others will chime in here much more experienced than i but I say cut your neck and be done with it. I have a feeling there is something else going on here too.
 

jr1000yarder

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,133
Location
Pocono Mts. PA
agreed Dirty Dan. I ran this set up with no issues until I caught the 26" bug. Something is loose...maybe bad tire, hard to say without being there. If it were mine it would be disassembled and rebuilt checking and triple checking. I wouldn't ride it until you do so. NOT SAFE!

Just my .02

Rich

Oh on a side note, my bud had this happen with a rear tire change. Goofy but true.
 

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Thanks Dirty Dan and Rich. Appreciate the input. Doesn't seem right indeed. I have had this back to the shop numerous times and am about to give up on this setup... and go for the cut or the KewlMetal 40*... just wondering what everyone thinks of that approach as well.
 

jr1000yarder

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,133
Location
Pocono Mts. PA
That's what I run and love it, was the same cost to have someone cut and weld. I can't weld so Kewl Metal was something I could do. Over 8k on it and love it. No issues and like a rock over 100mph so it is safe if built as per directions. Joe at Kewl Metal is always there to help with issues and questions if they arise. Going 26 for me was no cut. Now he has a 30 kit too. Just wasn't ready to rock a 30 but when I am Joe will be my first call.

Just added front air to mine also so we will see how it rides in a few weeks in Daytona.

Rich
 

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
That's what I run and love it, was the same cost to have someone cut and weld. I can't weld so Kewl Metal was something I could do. Over 8k on it and love it. No issues and like a rock over 100mph so it is safe if built as per directions. Joe at Kewl Metal is always there to help with issues and questions if they arise. Going 26 for me was no cut. Now he has a 30 kit too. Just wasn't ready to rock a 30 but when I am Joe will be my first call.

Just added front air to mine also so we will see how it rides in a few weeks in Daytona.


Rich
Thanks Rich! Very helpful!
 

Ferro

Site Supporter
Messages
6,128
You definitely have something wrong, I've ran that set up for about a year. My bike rode great and handled very well. Then I decided to do a cut & rake which is better even yet. I can guarantee you it's not Pickards tree's. I would want to figure out the problem before I go and throw anything else on there.
 

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
You definitely have something wrong, I've ran that set up for about a year. My bike rode great and handled very well. Then I decided to do a cut & rake which is better even yet. I can guarantee you it's not Pickards tree's. I would want to figure out the problem before I go and throw anything else on there.
Thanks Ferro. Agree that something else seems to be going on here... I have had the bike into the shop several times and spent $2K+ trying to sort it out with no luck. Also wanted to add that Jevon at Pickard has been very helpful with guiding the tech's at the shop with confirming, adjusting the setup.

Good to hear the cut & rake worked out.
 
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Slowbagger

Site Supporter
Messages
1,196
I think I would try another shop before buying another set of trees. Hope you get it figured out man.
 

Zach

Site Supporter
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5,785
Location
Portland, OR
I'll be honest, I can't tell in the video how much of the wobble is being caused by your input and how long it takes to recover. To me it looks like quite a bit of it is being induced by your input to the bars.

I would start looking at other parts of the bike. Particularly the rear of the bike. A lot of front end wobbles can be the result of something not being right in the back. Tire pressure, overall condition, runout, shock settings etc. I would especially be looking back there based on your statement it is less noticeable when 2-up and/or loaded.

Zach
 

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Thanks everyone.

@Marc: stock air shocks

@Zach: Thanks, I have found that giving the bars the same type of input with a stock setup (wheels and trees) didn't result with this type of behavior. I first noticed this tendency after the changes while in the draft of a tractor trailer... Needless to say this began to concern me. I have had the rear wheel off, rebalanced, re-aligned, etc. Perhaps it's worth another look at the back end as you state.


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Zach

Site Supporter
Messages
5,785
Location
Portland, OR
Check for excessive runout on both front and rear wheels/tires. Are you running rear lowering blocks?

Without you messing with the bars, does it ride straight and true?

Zach



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