"weave" with 23" considering a change to 40* kewlmetal

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Looking for expert advice and wisdom from the forum.

Last summer I went to a 23" front wheel with a Pickard 23" Bagger Tree and Lowering kit and have been experiencing a bit of what I call "undamped weave/oscillation" and wondered if others have the same/similar behavior.

I posted a video here:

http://youtu.be/5KJAt09PeJ0

Note the undamped 'rocking/weave' beginning ~ 8 seconds. Behavior is activated with a quick/short input (and release) to the bar (left or right) then allowing the bike to naturally settle.

Speed ~ 60 MPH

Note: I do not experience any vibration (at any speed).
Note 2: If I apply continuous pressure (left or right) as utilized during an inter- or intra-lane change the bike does not exhibit this behavior. Thus, only a quick/short transient input to the bars seems to excite this behavior (weave/oscillation)...

I brought the bike back to a local shop here in NorCal several times to adjust/check neck pressure (recommended by Jevon at Pickard who was very helpful!), wheel balance, alignment, etc with no appreciable change in behavior.

I ride two up quite often and travel long distances (typically 8 hour rides with twisties along with highway) and find with the additional mass/weight the bike will not exhibit this behavior as much. (i.e. it is dramatically reduced). However, when I ride solo this behavior increases dramatically (as shown in the video). I weigh about 160lbs and stand around 5'8" tall and after trying to sort this out for months I am convinced that this particular setup is not optimum for my personal set of variables... As others that I have talked to with the same set up are typically taller and/or stockier and have no issues. I would think this would be a factor that could impact 'riding' geometry enough and would contribute to differences in ride among individuals.

After talking to a number of folks (including custom builders in the area) and reading the forum I wondering if going with the KewlMetal 40* pro street kit will address my issues? It seems that stretching the wheelbase and rake would stabilize the ride at highway speeds? What about twisties as well as two up riding over long distances?

I appreciate any help or insight from the experts!

JettSound
 
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SickBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,328
Location
Northern New Jersey
There has to be a underlying issue you overlooked. The 23 trees on 99% of the bikes are rock stable at 100 plus MPH. TAKE IT APART AND DO IT OVER. Preload on the neck bearings is very important. I believe they call it swing adjustment or close to that. Make sure nothing's binding.
 

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Thanks SickBoy and dicktracy13. I appreciate it. I also just found out that the front tire is actually rotating in the wrong direction ( thanks to limedime)... Going to straighten that out and recheck the fall away too.


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LuckyOnes

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,380
Location
Kelowna, Canada
Wow that video is odd.
I'm running the same set up. I do t think weight is a factor at all. I've never had an issue, loaded or not.
 

DirtyDan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,535
Pickard it pretty easy to set preload as their trees are setup to do it from under the bottom tree. And here's a wild idea, check your rear swing arm bushings and setup. It's a long shot but possible.
 

Zach

Site Supporter
Messages
5,785
Location
Portland, OR
Now you're getting somewhere.

Curious too does the bike sit level? I was thinking about it not reacting when 2 up. Wondering if the bike actually sits slightly high in the rear when riding solo. By adding a passenger/gear you might actually be lowering the rear enough to straighten out the chassis.

Zach

Thanks SickBoy and dicktracy13. I appreciate it. I also just found out that the front tire is actually rotating in the wrong direction ( thanks to limedime)... Going to straighten that out and recheck the fall away too.


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jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Thanks LuckyOnes, DirtyDan and Zach! I'll take a look at your suggestions (swingarm bushings, fallaway, etc). Zach, the bike seems to sit level. I'll post a side shot later this afternoon. Related to the tire/wheel topic, I went back though old pics from the original install through when another shop worked on the problem. It turns out that the original install seems to indicate that the wheel/tire was installed correctly and the second shop reversed it while trying to correct the problem... However, I had the problem the entire time. ( unless the work the second shop did on the neck adjustment, wheel alignment and balance corrected it but the reversed front wheel/tire is masking it... I'll know later in the week. I may go back a 180 tire on the rear per your suggestion as well.


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jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
@Zach: here is a side shot of the bike ( when the front wheel was on correctly ). I may try going to a 180/60 radial ply on the rear. This will bring the sidewall height down by ~.47"...

The original was a 180/65 ( bias ply ) I believe. And the Avons are both radial ply.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1392656445.168652.jpg


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LuckyOnes

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,380
Location
Kelowna, Canada
@Zach: here is a side shot of the bike ( when the front wheel was on correctly ). I may try going to a 180/60 radial ply on the rear. This will being the sidewall height down by ~.47"...

The original was a 180/65 ( bias ply ) I believe. And the Avons are both radial ply.

View attachment 42272

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The wobble is clearly caused by the short bags bro! Lol
 

drgnit

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
Location
va
I had a wobble and swaying with my pickard setup.....when i first started. It was a combination of rear swingarm bolts were not adjusted correctly ng and also when i put the lower stem nut on i notice after tearing back down my dust cover was rubbing the bottom off the goose. As a easy fix i put a washer on first and then dust cover and redid my fall adjustment , and all was perfect....but dont alwas think its thefront as the rear swingarm bushings and your belt adjustment bolts will cause a swaying motion around 60 mph....i know from experience..hope this helps and GL
 

drgnit

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
Location
va
I just watched vidoe and thats exacly what my SG did and it was the dust cap under stem nut binding....by feeling it you would never find it but i kept going back to that area and finally saw it also just for releaf i didnt have to tear bike back down as nut is on bottom of tree so quick fix bro....hope this fixes it...or helps out
 

jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Thanks! Appreciate it. I'll take a look. Just remove the stem nut and reseat the dust cap along with a washer? I am going back to a 180 tire as well... Should be able to do a check ride Saturday and will check this too.


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jettsound

Member
Messages
22
Location
NorCal
Update: finally mounted the 180/60 and it improved the behavior. But didn't completely get rid of it...

I also checked the fall away and the swing comes past center and half way to the other side before coming back and stopping on center. Is that correct? I seem to recall that Pickard calls for a swing straight to center.

Thanks!
 

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