Anyone running just trees for a 23
- Thread starter Daddio
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slothy
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daddio - hit up yyazz - he was using trees only on a 23" and hated it bad wobble @ 70+ - might have just been shitty trees not sure. im thinking they where tricky
Mine's being built so I can't give you feedback on the ride yet. I did want to ask though, are you using your own math or an online calculator?
I spent a fair amount of time yesterday trying to reverse engineer the trail calculator at http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html but I'm missing something. I have Kewl Metal 12 degree trees and I was able to come up with the same trail numbers Kewl Metal specifies for their 12 and 13.5 degree trees using the online calculator. (Kewl Metal doesn't publish their offset but since I have mine installed, I measured 2.79 inches (offset is entered negative for the FLHX)). Anyway, I was trying to draw the geometry in Autocad to compare frame rake/raked tree geometry to raked tree only geometry but I can't get the numbers to reconcile. I've found some info on the tire contact patch centroid but there's something else missing in my math. If you could provide any insight, I'd appreciate it.
I spent a fair amount of time yesterday trying to reverse engineer the trail calculator at http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html but I'm missing something. I have Kewl Metal 12 degree trees and I was able to come up with the same trail numbers Kewl Metal specifies for their 12 and 13.5 degree trees using the online calculator. (Kewl Metal doesn't publish their offset but since I have mine installed, I measured 2.79 inches (offset is entered negative for the FLHX)). Anyway, I was trying to draw the geometry in Autocad to compare frame rake/raked tree geometry to raked tree only geometry but I can't get the numbers to reconcile. I've found some info on the tire contact patch centroid but there's something else missing in my math. If you could provide any insight, I'd appreciate it.
Nova606
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Hit up classic98 - he is running just trees also, actually I believe he is switching trees. I know he put trickeys on last spring.
Outstanding1 ... I come close using R&B s tool ... I think at -2.7 in the upper tree it would hit the dash ??? But anyway the bigger question come from the numbers
Kewlmetal states a trail number of 3.2" at 38 degrees total .... stock is...6.7" at 31/32 degrees total....HHI kit 7 degree neck and 7 degree trees...7.8" at 40 total...all of these are calced using 23" front tire dia of 29"..
And alot of people say that just 7 dgree trees wont work which works out to be @5.6" using a 23" front tire ...
You got me STUMPED !!! OH yah a stock softail runs in the 5" of trail range ...
This is why I am still asking in hopes that someone sheds the clue im missin
Kewlmetal states a trail number of 3.2" at 38 degrees total .... stock is...6.7" at 31/32 degrees total....HHI kit 7 degree neck and 7 degree trees...7.8" at 40 total...all of these are calced using 23" front tire dia of 29"..
And alot of people say that just 7 dgree trees wont work which works out to be @5.6" using a 23" front tire ...
You got me STUMPED !!! OH yah a stock softail runs in the 5" of trail range ...
This is why I am still asking in hopes that someone sheds the clue im missin
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I can confirm the the dash clears with the Kewl Metal 12 deg and the factory tank/bezel.
As far as the equations that incorporate tree rake, fork length, and offset, it seems to be a highly protected ancient Chinese secret. I think I'll assemble everything with my stock body parts this weekend and go ride the piss out of it to see how things handle (assuming I can find a stretch of road with no ice). I don't have a pressure gauge for the rear air ride so I'll have to think about how I can hold that variable constant. Stand Back! I'm going to try science!
One thing I think is being overlooked is just because it works out with math doesn't mean it's always going to ride the best. The opposite is also true, there are configurations out there that mathmatically don't work well but in reality ride great.
Just my 2 cents!
The way I see it is simple. If a shop like Native Custom Baggers says it works, then it works... You haven't heard them say trike trees are the best option...
Just my 2 cents!
The way I see it is simple. If a shop like Native Custom Baggers says it works, then it works... You haven't heard them say trike trees are the best option...
Classic$98
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I am going to agree with this completely. Especially after talking to hhi, kewl metal, Paul from Native. I would suggest calling these companies , getting the information and make up your mind that way. Not everything makes sense like it should.
I have spent a lot of time talking to the companies who makes these products like HHI ,tricky,kewlmetal.
People are referring to the same instance of using rake trees and small diameter tires leading to poor handling.
When you talk to these major companies about raking some of their answers are less than scientific . AND that
Scares me ..
With all that said if 26 inch tires were made by a major manufacturer I would be cutting my frame and raking to put that tire under my bike.
Like I said earlier I'm just looking for someone to shed some light on why some things work and some things don't.
People are referring to the same instance of using rake trees and small diameter tires leading to poor handling.
When you talk to these major companies about raking some of their answers are less than scientific . AND that
Scares me ..
With all that said if 26 inch tires were made by a major manufacturer I would be cutting my frame and raking to put that tire under my bike.
Like I said earlier I'm just looking for someone to shed some light on why some things work and some things don't.
Interesting that you mentioned small diameter tires... that points back to the tire contact patch centroid which makes sense from a physics perspective... I'm convinced frame rake and raked tree configurations can be modeled accurately, but rear suspension response, rider weight, handlebars, rider strength, etc. all seem to be variables that need to be accounted for. Maybe I've found my knitch in this business??? I'm going to start working on a new online calculator... exclusively for CB.com (Disclaimer and Public Service Announcement: I wasn't that good at calculus so I'll have to have my math verified... don't hold your breath...)
Classic$98
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Interesting.
InMotionJosh
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I found a couple of pictures of a Tree Only 23" Road Glide on Ebay. SOmething just doesnt look right to me. Seems like the trees hang down way to far under the fairing. Anyone else think something looks off?
Crazy Beaver
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It looks like the pro street kit not the 12 degree kit. I agree the 12 degree or cut and rake looks better.
InMotionJosh
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The ad says its a 45 degree rake....
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Crazy Beaver
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I am pretty sure that is there pro street kit. Some of the other guys here are going with the 12 degree for a 23 and a 13.5 degree for a 26, which I think looks better
Chad263
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thats that pro street kit man that looks retarded. the 12 or the 13.5 is way more tucked in than that
InMotionJosh
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Yeah, i thought it was a 21 also. Looks tiny. Maybe its just cause its so far out in front of the bike. The whole thing just looks wrong.
Classic$98
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That does look like a 21. You want to see something retarded look at their rake kit for 16/18". Don't know why anyone would ever want such a thing.
